1 00:00:04,695 --> 00:00:08,486 Richard Stallman in Tunis - 4.30.2012 - 5:50pm 2 00:00:43,972 --> 00:00:47,549 rms: Chems? The aureola? 3 00:00:47,907 --> 00:00:49,391 cbj: Pardon me? 4 00:00:49,391 --> 00:00:51,155 rms: The aureola and the robe? 5 00:00:51,155 --> 00:00:52,702 cbj: Yes, of course... 6 00:01:00,412 --> 00:01:01,914 I made an appointment 7 00:01:01,914 --> 00:01:03,363 rms: ok, with who? 8 00:01:03,363 --> 00:01:05,963 cbj: With the director 9 00:01:05,963 --> 00:01:08,196 rms: Bull's director?! 10 00:01:08,196 --> 00:01:14,454 cbj: I asked for a consultant to have a quote on eco friendly servers /-) 11 00:01:43,935 --> 00:01:46,429 rms: We're here to practice an exorcism, aren't we? 12 00:02:02,567 --> 00:02:05,649 So, I will sing now 13 00:02:05,649 --> 00:02:09,533 Bubble burst! (Bull=Bubble in french) 14 00:02:09,533 --> 00:02:12,094 Bubble burst! 15 00:02:12,915 --> 00:02:14,282 Sing with me! 16 00:02:14,282 --> 00:02:17,079 Bubble burst! 17 00:02:18,532 --> 00:02:21,087 Bubble burst! 18 00:02:22,449 --> 00:02:24,917 It's an exorcism 19 00:02:24,917 --> 00:02:28,668 There's some privative software in this place! 20 00:02:28,668 --> 00:02:32,385 They told me this place needed some exorcism 21 00:02:32,385 --> 00:02:35,572 I am Saint IGNUcius 22 00:02:36,124 --> 00:02:37,708 fe: Do you know Richard Stallman? 23 00:02:37,708 --> 00:02:39,955 employee: no... sorry... 24 00:02:39,955 --> 00:02:42,014 rms: Anyway... 25 00:02:42,014 --> 00:02:45,302 Bubble burst! 26 00:02:45,764 --> 00:02:47,848 Bubble burst! 27 00:02:49,033 --> 00:02:52,129 Bubble burst! 28 00:02:53,314 --> 00:02:55,597 Bubble burst! 29 00:02:57,059 --> 00:03:01,211 ic: Hello Richard, how are you doing, it's an honor to have you with us... 30 00:03:01,288 --> 00:03:04,343 rms: I'm just doing an exorcism 31 00:03:04,343 --> 00:03:11,132 I was told this was a hotbed of possession by proprietary software 32 00:03:11,132 --> 00:03:14,036 and that an exorcism was needed 33 00:03:14,985 --> 00:03:18,018 ic: that's...er... that's a nice way of putting it... 34 00:03:18,187 --> 00:03:26,655 rms: So we're trying to improvise an exorcism in the Church of Emacs... 35 00:03:27,086 --> 00:03:28,338 of witch I am a Saint... 36 00:03:28,338 --> 00:03:33,968 ic: You won... you're very welcome... you know, there was a time when... 37 00:03:33,968 --> 00:03:36,002 we have the will to change things, but... 38 00:03:36,002 --> 00:03:38,817 but we can not force the world around us... 39 00:03:38,817 --> 00:03:47,784 Sometime, on the other hand, one is actually helping to prevent the needed changes 40 00:03:47,784 --> 00:03:50,724 and that's when one must stop doing so. 41 00:03:51,271 --> 00:03:55,340 ic: it's a bid radical... so that we can keep focused and... 42 00:03:55,340 --> 00:04:01,207 so that we can maintain... but things will effectively change... 43 00:04:01,207 --> 00:04:06,156 by the way, I don't know, you're probably in the wrong spot, or... 44 00:04:06,156 --> 00:04:08,907 you're probably preaching to a converted, I mean... 45 00:04:08,907 --> 00:04:12,924 in the sense... we're not that closed source... 46 00:04:12,924 --> 00:04:15,556 rms: Well I'm not in favor of open source anyway 47 00:04:15,556 --> 00:04:19,839 I campaign for freedom respecting free software 48 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,791 but also, there are other ethical issues in the computer field 49 00:04:23,791 --> 00:04:27,355 there's this danger of this surveillance state 50 00:04:27,355 --> 00:04:31,756 and I've been told that Bull is connected with that as well 51 00:04:31,756 --> 00:04:34,106 ic: Oh, I see what you are refering to... 52 00:04:34,106 --> 00:04:35,290 not in tunisia actually... 53 00:04:35,290 --> 00:04:37,690 rms: Yes, that's right, in Tunisia. 54 00:04:37,690 --> 00:04:46,125 fe: you currently have a Bull/Amesys installation for surveillance located at the CNI here 55 00:04:46,125 --> 00:04:47,560 ic: Amesys... 56 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:48,998 rms: Bull est Amesys 57 00:04:49,029 --> 00:04:51,182 ic: That's in Libya! 58 00:04:52,782 --> 00:04:54,031 ic: I'm not aware of that! 59 00:04:54,046 --> 00:04:55,369 fe: You are totally aware of that. 60 00:04:56,842 --> 00:05:00,374 We'd be happy to provide you with the GPS location of your Amesys intallation in Tunisia 61 00:05:00,374 --> 00:05:03,609 ic: Well... Probably... Anyway... You know, those things... 62 00:05:03,609 --> 00:05:08,242 if they do exist, I would be the last one to know about... 63 00:05:08,242 --> 00:05:11,491 I don't know, I mean... it might me true... 64 00:05:11,491 --> 00:05:13,497 fe: Have you read the Wall Street Journal recently? 65 00:05:13,497 --> 00:05:17,544 The Wall Street Journal got an award for their investigation about that 66 00:05:19,940 --> 00:05:24,141 rms: So one thing that is Bull's ethical responsability 67 00:05:24,141 --> 00:05:31,798 is to cut its connections with the systems that are used for the surveillance of dissidents 68 00:05:31,798 --> 00:05:37,194 whether it be in Libya, in Tunisia, in France, or wherever... 69 00:05:37,194 --> 00:05:41,877 ic: Its a bit weird that I am in this position... 70 00:05:41,877 --> 00:05:45,443 I started using GNU/Linux in 1996 71 00:05:45,443 --> 00:05:48,445 That's when I formated my last Windows partition 72 00:05:48,445 --> 00:05:51,809 and I find myself in a very akward situation like... 73 00:05:51,809 --> 00:05:55,861 answering to Richard Stallman... You know... 74 00:05:55,861 --> 00:06:02,813 well... you know... the industry needs a lot of will and a lot of determination to do it... 75 00:06:02,813 --> 00:06:09,918 who would have believed in the 80s that we would end up in the situation where we are now... I mean... 76 00:06:09,918 --> 00:06:11,895 rms: Nobody can foresee 77 00:06:11,895 --> 00:06:15,105 ic: You have gone a very long way... I mean... 78 00:06:15,561 --> 00:06:20,802 fe: Who would have believed in the 80s that we could set mass surveillance on a whole country? 79 00:06:20,802 --> 00:06:24,732 rms: Stalin wanted to but he never could! 80 00:06:24,732 --> 00:06:30,583 fe: it's an amazing technology, evil technology, but amazing, congratulations. 81 00:06:30,583 --> 00:06:35,133 rms: So, it's been nice exorcising this facility 82 00:06:35,133 --> 00:06:40,933 ic: I agree with you, I'm not an official spokeperson for the company... I mean... 83 00:06:40,933 --> 00:06:46,833 I'm sure there are people who are more... you know... 84 00:06:46,833 --> 00:06:51,533 I'm sure there are people who would be in a better position than me to answer... 85 00:06:51,533 --> 00:06:54,636 but I truly do not know what Amesys is doing... 86 00:06:54,636 --> 00:06:58,850 fe: If you have a business card we can provide you with the exact GPS location... 87 00:06:58,850 --> 00:07:00,798 ...of an Eagle installation in Tunisia. 88 00:07:00,798 --> 00:07:02,398 ic: It's called 'Eagle'? 89 00:07:02,398 --> 00:07:06,981 fe: it's made by Amesys, the name of the system is Eagle, it's a mass surveillance system 90 00:07:06,981 --> 00:07:09,047 ic: is it post revolution or pre revolution? 91 00:07:09,047 --> 00:07:14,132 fe: previous to the revolution, 3 or 4 months before the revolution... 92 00:07:14,424 --> 00:07:18,866 ic: That is very interesting to know... I mean... 93 00:07:18,866 --> 00:07:21,866 rms: And how exactly does Bull relate to it? 94 00:07:21,866 --> 00:07:24,516 fe: Its owns Amesys technologies, actually. 95 00:07:24,516 --> 00:07:30,866 ic: We have acquired this company, so in some sense, we're responsible for it... 96 00:07:30,866 --> 00:07:39,182 rms: And didn't you said that there are some Bull machines that are in use in that installation as well? 97 00:07:39,182 --> 00:07:42,132 fe: We can go there if you like 98 00:07:42,132 --> 00:07:44,348 ic: I'd be very very interested 99 00:07:44,348 --> 00:07:47,533 being a tunisian citizen, apart from being a Bull employee 100 00:07:47,533 --> 00:07:49,882 fe: if you give me your business card I'll be happy to provide you the location of your missing installation 101 00:07:49,882 --> 00:07:53,236 ic: we'll hand one to you, yes... 102 00:07:56,219 --> 00:07:58,203 rms: a business card! 103 00:08:11,432 --> 00:08:13,884 cbj: I am happy to see all this is making you laugh as well 104 00:08:15,425 --> 00:08:19,690 ic: I'm not authorized to comment on those things 105 00:08:19,690 --> 00:08:24,791 I'm not an official spokeperson of the company 106 00:08:24,791 --> 00:08:30,408 it's really akward to be in this situation, being the person who's being accused 107 00:08:30,408 --> 00:08:32,325 but anyway... 108 00:08:32,325 --> 00:08:34,986 so, you are welcome, of course, to... er... 109 00:08:34,986 --> 00:08:36,258 fe: Exorcise this place? 110 00:08:36,258 --> 00:08:38,490 no... no... I mean... 111 00:08:38,490 --> 00:08:44,157 to contact our communication department and they should... 112 00:08:44,157 --> 00:08:47,450 fe: We did that already. I'm part of the team who did the investigation in Tripoli 113 00:08:47,450 --> 00:08:48,664 ic: Oh... you are the one... 114 00:08:48,664 --> 00:08:51,124 fe: nice to meet you. 115 00:08:51,124 --> 00:08:52,290 ic: I would be very interested... 116 00:08:52,562 --> 00:09:00,872 fe: your surveillance installations are also in Qatar, in Morroco, Casablanca, where it's currently being installed... 117 00:09:00,872 --> 00:09:04,889 here, of course, and in France, as we recently discovered... 118 00:09:04,889 --> 00:09:09,592 ic: So... er... please hold on a second... 119 00:09:15,355 --> 00:09:16,571 rms: Thank you 120 00:09:16,571 --> 00:09:20,294 ic: we'll put you through the people who are authorised to comment on thoses things... 121 00:09:20,294 --> 00:09:24,172 fe: Oh, we are already though, we're heading to the next level 122 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,041 ic: You're probably waisting your time... 123 00:09:27,041 --> 00:09:32,075 rms: We can show you the things that you need to know 124 00:09:32,075 --> 00:09:35,378 ic: Ok... That's really helpful, thanks, thanks... 125 00:09:36,088 --> 00:09:37,395 rms: Should we go?